Empire detachments.

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Empire detachments.

Postby Allarion » Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:59 pm

I am currently in a faze of expanding my Empire army and I was just wondering. How good is it actually to have detachments in you army, especially CC ones on block units. I mean, I've never played a game without detachments before and there may be some time before I am able to test it out for myself.

Anyway, I think that detachments aren't really necessary, and it's certainly easier to use them on a less skilled opponents, but are they worth it?
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Re: Empire detachments.

Postby General Kayel » Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:17 pm

Detachments, especially the close combat detachments, are what takes Empire infantry from cheap bodies that can potentially hold a line to an infantry group capable of winning combats convincingly and breaking their opponents. Without the flanking detachments, most enemy units will be able to stand toe-to-toe with the Empire infantry, and many of those will actually be able to break your infantry blocks with decent regularity. With the detachments however, Empire infantry blocks become much more difficult to defeat, let alone break, thanks to the flank bonus, rank negation, and extra attacks.

In short, yes, Empire detachments are always worth taking, how many and of what kind though varies depending upon what is in your army and the kinds of tactics you wish to employ. By and large though I think every combat block of infantry should also have at least one supporting detachment of combat infantry to counter/support charge. They may not be necessary per se, but they definitely improve the effectiveness of your army in any given situation. Besides, having cheap units that can cancel ranks, claim objectives and do not cause panic in other units are always worth having.
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Re: Empire detachments.

Postby yjorjorod » Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:00 pm

Empire detachments are cheap and definately worth it. True, most of the time the opponent will make sure that the counterattack is not gonna happen. BUT: He has to make an effort to do so; which will decrease the effectiveness of his onslaught. If the cc counterattack works, perfect. Definately worth the price. If it doesnt, then at least the enemy must have diverted some of his aggressive powers away from your main troops. The cc option of detachments is more important than the missile option. But bear in mind that missile troops can charge, too. The kills a detachment can do are less important than the fact that they can negate rank bonus and cause a flank attack.

The only problem with detachments is space! Its often difficult to deploy these detachments without wasting too much of it, possibly negating your artillery fire corridors. For this reason, I dont use two detachment per unit and some hardcore fighters like greatswords sometimes dont get it since they can hold it on their own. But generally, detachments are a necessity for the empire army.
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Re: Empire detachments.

Postby Allarion » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:52 am

Yeah, I get the problem with space a lot too.
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Re: Empire detachments.

Postby Elven_Soul » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:36 am

I love 3x3 detachments. They negate rank, add a few attacks, flank bonus... and they don't take that much space! Every block of infantry I deploy has a single detachment (usually halberdiers). Surely the enemy will try to block them, but... even a Great Eagle is an expensier way to block them (50pts vs 45pts).

I think they are almost mandatory if you play an infantry based Empire army. They increase the effectiveness of you troops for very little cost.
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Re: Empire detachments.

Postby campbell » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:13 pm

beat me to it. 3x3 detachments still negate ranks and take up very little space in your lines. they've certainly made my life a lot easier. it can also make it more difficult for your enemy to eliminate your detachments by charging them as there may not be enough room between your main combat blocks to get to them, especially if ya leave them an inch or so back nad pack your regiments together kinda close.
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Re: Empire detachments.

Postby Allarion » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:47 pm

Cool, I'll certainly try that, thanks!
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Re: Empire detachments.

Postby kingalrik2007 » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:52 am

i have to agree that they are worth it if you dont put all of your eggs into one basket. the few times i played against them, my opponent had 2 shooting detachments supporting each infantry unit and then wouldn't countercharge with them. i also chose to purposly avoid his main unit, get into a position to flank charge the detachment, and then overrun into the flank of the parent unit. if used right they are great, if not look out. seeing as im not an empire player, i just thought i'd throw my 2 cents in from a different point of view.
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Re: Empire detachments.

Postby Michael J » Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:28 pm

The trick with detachments is trying to make them difficult enough to kill to stop the enemy being able to easily take them out before they reach close combat but not to spend too many points on them either. That's why the 3x3 detachments are so good. They're cheap, don't take up much space in your deployment zone and will usually require more than one round of shooting to get below US5.

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Re: Empire detachments.

Postby Hugatsaga » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:58 pm

Remember that when you use 3x3 detachments, you actually need second infrantry block or terrain on the other flank to create such a small gap that most enemy units cannot charge your detachment.


Maybe I'm just being the curmudgeon who couldn't see brilliance when it sat before him but I still prefer detachments of 10 free company, 5 models wide and two deep. Keeping the detachment about 6 or 7 inches back from parent units leading edge should prevent the most units from charging your detachment. And when 5x2 detachment actually gets counter-charge, it fights much better than 3x3 detachment.

Also, there is units who can still charge your detachment, even if you go 3-wide; like chariots, lone characters, some monsters like great eagles etc... And remember that enemy can also reform his/hers troops (especially fast cavalry) to gain narrower frontage. And when your detachment gets charged, 5x2 free company outperforms 3x3 detachments, thanks to rank bonus and more men in fighting rank who can attack back. But to be honest with you, it usually doesn't matter: When your detachment gets charged, it's pretty much doomed, but extra rank and more attacks can help you win sometimes if the charger is weak.


When playing 5x2 detachments, keep in mind that nothing says you can't go 3 wide when you need to. If you can see detachment-hunters coming, deploy your detachment 3x3 formation plus one man in the back rank. If you can't see them coming when you deploy but they are still there, you can reform your troops to 3-wide formation.
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Re: Empire detachments.

Postby General Kayel » Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:33 am

@ Hutgatsaga: The same thing you say about placement for the 5x2 detachment works even better with a 3x3 detachment. Furthermore, if your opponent is charging your detachments with chariots, he's wasting the chariots abilities (better to charge the parent unit and have the detachment try to counter-charge the chariot)... anyways, if you deploy the 3x3 back from the front line like you would with the 5x2, the detachments are able to preform just fine without stretching your line too much (keeping the all important general and bsb within range of as many units as possible). Now yes, you can reform your lines when faced with units that might threaten your detachments, but as you pointed out already, most of the time a 5x2 is little better off than a 3x3 on its own and if you deployed your army with fully 5 wide units and space for the detachments, then the outer edges of the army can easily end up beyond the reach of your general's leadership and/or the battle standard, making your flanks even more vulnerable...not something you want in an infantry based army (of any race).
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Re: Empire detachments.

Postby Sirroelivan » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:59 pm

Aren't militia detachements (5 men) also very usefull as sacrificial units (to divert attackers, etc.) because they don't cause panic when destroyed?
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Re: Empire detachments.

Postby Goronkor » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:54 pm

I use 5 archers detachement to screen the greatsword. Soo useful !
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Re: Empire detachments.

Postby Border Reiver » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:56 pm

The destruction of any size detachment will not cause panic (so those of you with flipping huge dets need not worry).

Detachments are the empire's best tool when it comes to winning battles, with their abilities to counter charge, provide supporting fire, or make a supporting charge they will greatly increase your combat abiltiy, but that's not all - these small, ultimately expendable forlorn hopes can divert enemy chargers, or be sacrificed to a greater end (say, setting up a flank charge), or just used to draw out enemy units or be a target, it's all good.

Empire soldiers are not CC monsters, or the most durable things on the battlefield, but with the proper support, they will send the forces of Chaos back into the void from whence they came.
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